you say, that the debt ceiling itself shouldn't be something that we are negotiating over right now but right now there are some very real things that they can hold out to try to get the proposals, the republicans can. >> absolutely. let's talk about what the debt ceiling is. the debt ceiling, we're the only country on ert with a debt ceiling. there are other countries that have controls, including debt-to-gdp. debt as a percentage of the economy requirement but we're the only one that has a debt ceiling. the debt ceiling is really dealing with, you know, hows that have already been passed, apropose riegss that have already been made, ultimately what we need to do is achieve a grand bargain where we get rid of the debt ceiling. we substitute statutory budget controls and i would argue a constitutional debt as a percentage of the economy limit. >> saying you could never go beyond -- >> that's right. >> what percent would that be? >> 120% of gdp, 100%. public debt we're about 75. total debt we're over 100 already. so depends on how you want to count it. let's recognize what it is. on the